Permaculture

Tip · Joined: 25 Feb 2008 Posts: 19

I have recently stumbled across a horticultural system that I believe will inevitably destroy the current paradigm of agriculture. Maybe even save our species. The common name for this system is "permaculture". This is a system whereby anybody with a piece of land (or even a balcony or the like), can use their space to farm their own food. More than that, in permaculture, intelligent planning is utilized to maximize the benefits of both your resources (water, land, soil, sunlight, wildlife, lack thereof), and the benefits of the interrelationships of your crops and livestock. This is meant to mimic Nature, and is done in ingenious ways by ingenious people, and the possibilities are literally endless.

In traditional style agriculture (mono-cropping), disease is rampant and soil degradation is inevitable. Especially after a few years of tilling and reworking the soil for the same crop. With the absense of diverse organic material replenishing the soil, toxic salts build up to the point where soon, nothing will grow. And of course, chemical fertilizers accelerate this process.

Methinks this is at least part of the reason why the NWO wants to kill off huge percentages of the population. Eventually, with diminishing crop yields due to gross mismanagement of our farmlands, there may only be enough food to go around for the 500 million or so that the eugenicists aim to reduce us to. If they stick with the current systems of agriculture, that is. Enter permaculture.

Interview with Bill Mollison, Permaculture Founder

Adobe Reader Permaculture pamphlets

I'm far from an expert on the subject, but I can recognize sense in the face of an oncoming food crisis. Above are a couple links that will explain more than I can. I'm still doing my homework on this, but I felt I owed it to anybody who cared to post this bit.
_________________
Dear NWO,

You will go down soon,

Love,
Tip

noahsark · Site Admin Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 43

Thanks for bringing this info to the forum. This is the kind of knowledge that helps to put resources back into the hands of the people.

One thing that I have learned with looking into how the planet and its people are managed by the elite, is that for them to do it they have to hold the resources that people are dependent on in their hands. Resource control = people control in the end and that carrot on the end of the stick can be used to corrupt and mislead people.

One of the main ways to bring about solutions is to break their hold on things and take up our responsibility; to become self-reliant. What you brought forth here is one method of doing so...

I myself don't think that the elite are looking to kill a large amount of the population because of the coming food crises, but it is the other way around. The food crises is being perpetuated to be one of the means of culling the populations. They feed off of all the problems that they have created either directly or indirectly. These problems are the means in which they seek to fulfill the end they are seeking.

From the bit of understanding I got about permaculture from reading the interview that you linked with Bill Mollison, is that it is certainly one direction that takes the food control out of the elites hands and places it in the hands of the people.

There are other ways as well, such as community supported agriculture that uses organic and bio-dynamic methods of farming. With organic of coarse there are no pesticides polluting the land and the people consuming the food as well as no GMO crap involved. Then with bio-dynamic methods, preparations are made that keep the soil healthy as far as feeding the soil micro-organisms and so forth. To add to these methods are proper ways of managing the land through crop rotation.

I belong to a CSA in my area called the Kimberton CSA, great people doing wonderful work. CSA's are another good direction for people to be moving towards that will decentralize the control over our food and put the power back into the hands of the people. In all things the solutions are to be found in decentralization and localizing the power with the community. This would work for the food, for schools and alot of other things as well. It also creates opportunity for people to feel connected with each other and a demand for people to develop themselves and gain skills that are needed in the community rather them becoming cogs in some assembly line; people would be encouraged to become craftsmen under this type of environment and feel a sense of belonging rather than the isolation that is plaguing so many.

It comes down to people taking the initiative to make things like this happen instead of relying on some system of control or government to do it for them and come up with the answers, which is the present mental atmosphere that people have been coaxed into. To rely on them for answers because they has posited themselves as the authority is dangerous indeed and those answers or solutions will never be forthcoming because their method is to create a tyrannical order out of the chaos they have created.

I would suggest that people look into their local CSA's and see what they have to offer, it is a step in the right direction along with taking up permeculture to put their food source into their hands directly.

Here is an online resource where people can find local CSA's that are available in their areas:
Local Harvest.org

and another source on buying locally produced food:
Food Routes.org

I remember watching a video with Callum Coats who was doing a presentation of the ideas of Victor Shauberger who found ways of tilling the soil with a certain metal, aligning the crop a certain way with the suns rays and cutting it at certain angle that would not cut the capillaries in the soil which would cause the crop to produce so much more.

Here is a link to the video:
Sacred Living Geometry with Callum Coates

The answers are with us and the knowledge is hear to heal this planet and ourselves, the diagnosis of the disease is in as well; which an understanding of is so important when it comes to implementing the solutions.

Thanks for the post my brother because what you brought forth here is another solution that people can take up and empower themselves with. We don't have to fight the new world order so much as we have have to find ways to unplug from their system so it can fall on its face. The people are breathing life into the monster through their ignorance and by believing the lies that they are powerless. The knowledge and application of permaculture would help to deflate that monster and prove to the people that their "powerlessness" just isn't true. Which goes to show that the answers are not in going on the offensive or the defensive against the new world order, but to yield to overcome it. To pull out of their destructive system and replace it with methods that work and are healthy for us all.

Tip · Joined: 25 Feb 2008 Posts: 19

Yeah, you bring up a good point about the NWO using agriculture as a means of control. The system (agriculture) is in place, and they don't have to change it much to use it for our enslavement. Since the paradigm is firmly in place, and given its destructive nature, it becomes one hell of an excuse for eugenics. I think we both know that they've been looking for a good excuse for a long time.

If you look at a natural forest, it is a thriving, diverse organism unto itself. Nature, over the course of many, many years selects for itself the proper components for an enduring, self- regulating system. The forests in turn are the regulators of the Earth. Earth's weather patterns, oxygen/carbon levels, its overall health, are determined largely by the forests. The other main regulatory life force is the ocean, and its fate is determined largely by the forests. If the forests aren't there to regulate the water runoff, to absorb and make use of minerals, to filter toxins, then the ocean itself will begin to get sick, as these things pour unchecked into it. This is already happening.

So, of course, the NWO is happy to hack down our trees, make a buck, raize the land and either plant food acriculture- style or just build a bunch of condos. Then, they get their cronie the Al-Gore to run around pushing the panic button and spewing his carbon tax propaganda. Anybody smell genocide? You know they don't give a shit, because carbon dioxide actully makes plants grow faster.

I don't deny, however that there is a problem. There is, but the solution is not a global tax. They hack at the branches of the problem intentionally to make it look like they're doing something, and the root is completely ignored-- even laughed at. The solution is Permaculture. Keep in mind that "Permaculture" is only a word attempting to describe a principle. The concept is ever evolving, and its practitioners study how life works, how a food system can be made to endure and regulate itself with very minimal interference or maintenance from humans. Getting started is the hardest part. Why mow your lawn? Why not have a jungle garden for a front yard?

Noah- Thanks for the info, bro. I haven't had time to look at it much yet, but I will. Pardon the rant. Just a thought: Bill Mollison has books you might consider putting in your store (also wanted anybody interested to know that). I'll try to post later on another topic. Peace
_________________
Dear NWO,

You will go down soon,

Love,
Tip

noahsark · Site Admin Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 43

You are more than welcome my brother. Thank you for bringing this subject to the forum.

I agree with you on the al gore pseudo care for the environment campaign. It is all about using the environmental mess that they created to empower the U.N. over the nations under the guise of saving the planet. Same old psychopathic formula of problem-reaction-solution at work.

al gore and his ilk are playing on the deeper feelings that people are having about the environmental degradation and then misdirecting it all together. There certainly is an environmental problem, it is out of balance and extremely toxic. Carbon dioxide is not the problem it is the toxicity and something never discussed in their circles why they parade in the lime light pretending to care. It is so easy to see the work of their mind control machine when you talk to someone who wants to cry about carbon dioxide and blame all environmental woes on global warming; then when you point the chemtrails out to them in the sky they look at you crooked.

It comes back to finding balance with nature and to do that we must comprehend her.

You seem to be against agriculture all together. I myself couldn't take that extreme of a stand. When it comes to big track farming, yes - I say do away with it. Small community based farms is what it is all about for the time being.

If we are going to make the change eventually we will have to consider transition and where everyone would fit into that transition... and of coarse it could only come about through people being aware, knowledgeable and willing to act on it. So discussions like this are a step in the right direction.

The ultimate goal would be for permaculture to take the forefront eventually with CSA as a backup if needed. I am not to well versed in permaculture to know all of the ins and outs of it, but from that Bill Mollison interview you linked in the first post of this thread it gives one a very nice overview of the concepts and they are certainly viable ones. I really like his approach and ideas.

There have been moments in the past when i would ponder on things and one of the reoccurring ideas was, that if everyone who had a backyard turned them in to full blown gardens everyone could take part in feeding each other. It could get even more balanced if there were town meetings where each season people would choose and rotate what they grew. When people come together and work towards working together, then great things can be born that all will benefit from and not just the few.

So yeah, i like the whole concept that Mollison put forth in regards to lawns and how they are a waste of resources, time and human energy.

"Mollison: I hate lawns. Subconsciously I think we all hate them because we’re their slaves. Imagine the millions of people who get on their lawn-mowers and ride around in circles every Saturday and Sunday.

They have all these new subdivisions in Australia which are between one and five acres. You see people coming home from work on Friday, getting on their little ride-on mowers, and mowing all weekend. On Monday morning you can drive through these areas and see all these mowers halfway across the five acres, waiting for the next Friday. Like idiots, we spend all our spare time driving these crazy machines, cutting grass which is only going to grow back again next week."

The key word when it comes to use of land and many other resources is mismanagement. A lot of that goes back to not having a holistic understanding of nature, which if you ask me again is that way by design.

The elite have promoted specialization for a reason; because it keeps people from understanding things and how they really work. When you have a working understanding of anything which requires a holistic approach, then you have taken the first step on the road toward self-reliance and self-reliance is the key to breaking the "strong-hold" that the elite have on the planet.

Another thing that comes to mind in regards to the toxic environment, is that it is ultimately a reflection of the inner state of mankind. Before the toxicity reveals itself in the material realm its has its roots in the psyche and emotions of the people. Again it comes back to the holistic understanding that what arises without must first have its impetus from within. So for things to turn around people will have to be honest with themselves and face the darkness within that is giving rise to the darkness and imbalance we see appearing on the planet.

The psychic pollution becomes mirrored in the sky (air)
The emotional pollution becomes mirrored in the waters.
The digestive pollution where the fire in the belly burns gives rise to perverted instincts that is mirrored in the fires of war
and the diseased body cancer and so on is reflected in the earth.

It ultimately must all come out and be healed either through knowledge or a great destruction. I would say that we have been here before the only question that remains is: are we going to get off of this merry-go-round in time or will we repeat the same mistakes that occurred when this cycle came to a close when atlantis fell.

So yes the new world order is going to be defeated, if not by the oil of knowledge being applied by an awakening people then surely by destruction brought on by their own machinations. It is a house built on sand. The men who claim to be the most illuminated, the most wisest of all are in all actuality the biggest fools.

Here they are trying to claim the world as their own and be the masters of the whole tarot which are symbolic representations of life stages. You do not claim the world for yourself, you become "the world" when you rest into it as it is completely and wholly, no need for control here. Everything is already in its own natural order with out the elite projecting their own twisted version upon:

They really are just still sitting on the fool card, not ready to take a leap of faith and begin a journey of growing and self reflection, but to fall off the cliff and take many with them on the long drop to the bottom:

Notice the world card is number 21, and here are the elite in the 21st century making their end game move for world control, but in the end all they will hold in their hands is one big 0, f00l(s)

Tip · Joined: 25 Feb 2008 Posts: 19

I believe you are right in most everything you said above. You will have to tell me a bit more about the Tarot, because I don't understand how it works or how it is used. To me, some of the psychic ideas are a little creepy. I haven't looked into any of it much, mainly because I don't understand how I could prove to myself whether it works or not, or whether it may be good or evil. I can't honestly take another's opinion of these things and believe them, even if they are right about so many other things. That whole subject I have resolved to examine at another time, but if you want to discuss this with me further, maybe there is a better thread in the forum for it? No offense intended... feel free (as I'm sure you do) to tie in whatever you want with me. I just may be unable to fully relate Confused

I never thought about the polluted state of things elementally like that... that is very interesting. Just goes to show the complete corruption and detachment of our "shadowy overlords". Can they do a more thourough job of screwing everything up? Yes, I believe they can. They will destroy everything if we don't stop them.

"Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. Then all things are at risk... The very hope of man, the thoughts of his heart, the religion of nations, the manners and morals of mankind are all at the mercy of a new generalization." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
(Ralph has some of the best quotes.)

Yes, I would say that I am altogether against agriculture. I don't fault small community farms, or think that they are doing wrong in growing their food the way they best know how. I do think, however, that agriculture will soon find itself at the "mercy of a new generalization".

I say this because I believe that food should be the least of our worries. Food has the ability to grow in incredible abundance all across the face of the Earth, but only if we want it to. I can concieve of a world where there would be no more farmers, because anybody could wander outside and snag some grub. It could be done. Whether it will or not remains the question.

I have a hard time understanding why, when confronted with a better, much easier way of doing something, most people go on the attack. It's just an idea! How dare you ask them to consider that there might be a better way than the same old trusty way they have always done things? Often, I realize, it doesn't matter the way people do things... what matters is results. Everybody is unique in getting them. But when the means of doing adversely affects others or our environment, I take offense.

The only solution, if you have a better way, is that people need to see your results. "Be the change that you want to see in the world". People need to see unequivocally, that your way is better than their way-- not just a little better, but better by a landslide. Better in so many ways that is impossible to refute its significance. And that is just the first step. Reason alone doesn't move people to action, there must be some emotional attachment as well. A degree of salesmanship, or "counter- propaganda" is absolutely essential to get the vast majority on any particular bandwagon. As you said, a few of us need to be aware, knowledgeable and willing to act.

So, the well- intentioned small farmers are for now providing an essential service. One day soon though, I hope they will realize that they could save themselves a lot of labor, and grow exponentially more food. The drawback to switching systems though is that Permaculture is, for the most part, slow- starting. Farmers couldn't hope to approach the yields they are accustomed to for at least a few years. And the first few years require the most work. But once established, their permaculture farms will both maintain themselves, and provide insane amounts of food in great variety.

I have so far limited my posting to this thread because I am more knowledgeable about this than other topics, and I am convinced that this is one of the first steps to defeating the NWO. What do human beings need to live? Water, air, sunshine, protection from the elements, and food. The same as a plant. If you take a plant and (to use your elemental analogy) pollute its air with pesticides, its water with waste, its earth with "fertilizers", and its fire (sunshine) by destroying the ozone layer with abominations such as HAARP, then what do you have? A dead plant. The same goes with humans and the Earth in general. The stupid, mindlessly destructive parasite is killing off its host in a very methodical fasion. What do they figure the end result will be? Can they really be so freaking STUPID? If we as humans can ensure our ability to live and be healthy, then we can stop them. The freeman, by virtue of simply being alive to fight, will always be guaranteed a possibility of victory.

Peace
_________________
Dear NWO,

You will go down soon,

Love,
Tip

Tip · Joined: 25 Feb 2008 Posts: 19

One thing I would like to add is that Permaculture can be performed anywhere that anything will grow, as long as a person has the proper plant stock. So, store up on a variety of organic seeds, because the time may soon come where we are growing our food covertly under the cover of trees, or in between rocks in the hills, or in the desert. Food will grow anywhere with the proper understanding of nature, and they cannot stop this. We could rename it Guerillaculture.

Permaculture is more about the understanding and doing than about supplanting systems such as agriculture.

Peace
_________________
Dear NWO,

You will go down soon,

Love,
Tip

noahsark · Site Admin Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 43

Brother Tip,

I am going to ask you a few questions here based on what you wrote:

Tip · Joined: 25 Feb 2008 Posts: 19

Noah,

At this point I get most of my food from agriculture. Maybe I should have said "ultimately against" instead of "altogether against". Look, I don't deny that it suits its purpose and provides a great benefit to society. After all, we're not exactly starving at the moment. I simply believe that there is a better way of going about growing our food. I realize that farming is a noble profession, my grandfather does it for a living and it's served our family well. I also know how hard he works.

I don't have anything against working hard, by the way. Yet, when all you have time for is working at your "job", it leaves little time for anything else. Such as spiritual pursuit, acquiring knowledge, and then passing this down through your family. Or tinkering in your garage on an invention you have. Or helping somebody else with something important to them. The human race can aspire to so much more than they currently do. When I said that we wouldn't need farmers, I meant that nobody would have to do it for a living. Everybody could be farmers, just not in the traditional sense. Here I am speaking of possibilities, not coersion. Yes, any sort of paradigm shift would have to be done willingly and gradually, and none of this is up to any one particular person. In a truly free society, I believe, people would take one look at what can be done with Permaculture and never go back to plowing fields or picking weeds.

You misunderstand me if you think I would consider mind controlling people. I only believe that people occaisionally need to be convinced that something is good for them. I would wager that everybody who has ever come to any conclusions at all has been convinced at some time or another. I don't see anything wrong with this except for the clumsy words. Both the means and the end are important to me, as principles are important to me.

Instead of convincing, I suppose we could call it teaching. Of course you cannot teach somebody completely unwilling to learn. But if there's a shred of willingness in a particular student, then a good teacher can nurture this and help it grow. I have seen people that are absolutely unwilling to learn with one teacher or teaching style, and yet thrive with another. A good teacher can teach just about anybody.

As far as the emotional thing goes, I think almost nobody takes the time to reason something out unless they are in some way emotionally vested. If you love something, you think about it. Often people need help making connections between the things they love and how to get them or keep them. Everybody has their own personal cage that they need to free themselves from if they ever hope to stand on their own two feet. Others can help, but cannot do it for them. Sure, this dynamic can be twisted, but I am talking about un-twisting.

You and I are in disagreement, I think, about whether a few have the right to lead. If you lead, and people follow, then it gives you the right. With that right comes responsibilities and obligations, most of which our current "leaders" blatently ignore, and most of which the average person would be unwilling or unable to meet. Proper leadership is a very difficult job, one I wouldn't wish on anybody. A good leader gives all the credit (gets by giving), and takes all of the blame. A good leader knows that everybody is important, everybody is human, and everybody has rights. A good leader listens to the council of his people, and is forthright with his people. A good leader must settle disputes, ensuring true justice and real freedom. A good leader must do all this simultaneously, and would seldom be allowed to rest until his purpose had outlived itself. The problem with this scenario being: at present, people even remotely like this rarely, if ever, come to power. But they need to if we are going to unseat the carrot danglers. Everything else would roll downhill from there.

I didn't mean to misquote you. I guess I assumed that for everybody to become informed, it would have to begin with a few, and mistook you for saying the same thing. I am speaking of the process not necessarily the end goal here. I believe that most people look to leadership, hope for it, and to some degree need it. This doesn't have to be the case forever, but I think it's the case now. I am not willing to leave people behind to a gloomy fate if they fail to understand because of ignorance. Not willful ignorance, just ignorance. Ignorance is not so much a crime, as it is a disease, and one that can be treated. Once cured, a person is healthy enough to help another, and when everybody's healthy then we won't need leaders/teachers/mentors any longer, just parents. This is the only scenario that will ever satisfy me.

To me, it seems simple. Always strive to be the best person I am capable of being, and NEVER bend on principle. Principles can break with new realizations, but should never bend. Help people out, as many as are willing, in any way I can devise, and find happiness in doing so. Raise my family and teach them everything I can, so my work on this Earth does not go to waste. Everything else important to me would more or less fall into one of these categories.

Noah, I realize that my ideas may be on the ideological side of things. Nothing is ever as cut and dry as I might make it sound, I realize. I can understand how some of the things I say may come across to you, but I am only presenting an idea. In practice, I realize things become much more difficult. After all, these are only words in an electronic box. You are right, this is about waking up. It is also about learning about each other and becoming friends, which sometimes means reading between the lines. How can two men walk together unless they are agreed? What might be more important than walking together?

Brief question: are you by chance an anarchist? Won't hurt my feelings whether you are or you aren't. Labels like that are almost meaningless, and are readily used to incite division. I only ask because it will help me understand where you stand.

noahsark · Site Admin Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 43

Brother Tip,

I understand where you are coming from but we have to careful in the manner in which we step forward.

My point that I wanted to get to about asking you if you get your food from agriculture was that you have to set the example. Make permaculture work for you and then demonstrate that to the people, others will catch on to your example and it will grow. I myself am not against permaculture at all from the little i understand of it, in fact I would love to live in relation to the "end" scenario that you envision but I also feel that there are better ways when it comes to agriculture that need to be implemented along the way. Then it would be up to the people to abandon it all together or not depending on the feasibility of it. Permaculture sound nice but will it be able to sustain the nutritional needs of the people on its own?

At this point farming needs to get off the pesticide tit and stay the hell away from the GMO crap; adopt organic, biodynamic, and other natural methods while decentralizing to a community level. Hence, the importance of the CSA. Farming doesn't have to be laid on the shoulders of the few when those in the communities could be a part of it. For this to happen, people have to take up that path and stop buying the pesticide laden GMO crap and get involved with their local farmers. At this point in the "game" with the way society is structured, just joining a CSA and buying your food from your locally owned ma and pa whole foods markets is a big step in the right direction.

To move on... Any kind of bandwagon is a product of group think. When there is a bandwagon people just start following and are not in complete autonomy with themselves in regards to what they are doing. I have seen it in many examples. You have the engine of the train and all the other box cars hooked up on the "bandwagon." To kill the engine or the leaders of the bandwagon is to destroy to whole movement towards its destination. Where as if you have people who are well educated because they have seen the need for the knowledge and action working together in harmony in regards to what they are trying to accomplish they couldn't then kill the leaders and destroy the movement. That way there would be no way for it to be stopped short of massacring everyone involved and if it is a decentralized "movement" as well it makes it impossible to stop.

These are the kind of things that must be understood if we are going to be able to plant any solutions and make them stick. This is a collective problem that resides on the individual level - we will not be able to implement any solutions until enough people as individuals start moving in the proper directions so it can have a naturally occurring collective force WITHOUT any administrative body that can be targeted. Nothing short of this will do, and it is up to each individual to take their minds back, take their lives back and owe up to the responsibility that they owe not only to themselves but to every other human being that they share this planet with. To truly do good and live a moral life is not only uplifting for the individual but for the rest of the web of life and i repeat there is no need for any administrative body to enforce this. Administrative bodies do not work for the human race - it is a hierarchical system that is not congruent with us or natural to us. We need a holistic understand of life, that system is already in place naturally and needs no one to look over it or govern it. All we need to do is to live in accordance with life and all it contains, everything else will then fall into place.

So that is why I do not like the idea of having leaders.

We all must become leaders of ourselves; nothing more, nothing less.

I wouldn't call myself an anarchist, because I don't like to label myself with anything. At this point in history I can see a need for some form of government, but at the same time it needs to be a radically different form of government than what we know or have ever known. We need a new form of government that has its basis on maintaining individual and cultural sovereignty based on a decentralized structure. In the end it may even need a new word other than government.

A true government is one that seeks to uplift its people towards the day when government will no longer be needed because the people would have outgrown the need for such things.

In regards to this comment you made:

Tip · Joined: 25 Feb 2008 Posts: 19

Hi Noah...

This is probably one of these conversations that would be better in person, I think. Fundamentally, we don't disagree on much, and I think it would be a lot more evident in a face to face chat. What you said about agreeing to disagree went through my head even as I was writing the sentence you quoted.

What you said about the agriculture is true... it can be improved upon, and I hope for everybody's sake that it is. Myself, I am working on the Permaculture thing. I don't fully understand the details of creating workable systems, I am only imagining the possibilities at this point. In the mean time, I have a line on some food from a CSA at your recommendation.

I have found, by talking to many different people about things like these, that most are apathetic to problems they envision are beyond their control. However, I think the solution lies (at least in part) in "getting off the grid". Whenever I mention that sentence to people who don't even want to think about most of this stuff, they perk right up and start bringing forth ideas.

So, for lack of being able to think of anything better, I am going back to school to figure out how to do just that- get off the grid. I'm going to study civic engineering, renewable energy, ecological and electrical engineering, starting the end of the month. It seems like a lot to swallow, but I think that these things interlock, and there are enough existing discoveries that my work will lie in trying to coordinate them together in cohesive systems.

Part of my work is already done, I just need to delve into the technical aspects. I've looked into various forms of renewable energy sources and highly efficient motors, and coupled with Permaculture and intelligent (wasteless) home design... Who knows? I'm an optimist, and I don't think that free people are going to lose this battle. The powers that be can only suppress ideas for so long.

I would say that ideas + action = power... the power to preserve your individual sovereignty from those who would take it, and in the wrong hands, also the power to take that sovereignty away. It is a brutal game we play, and victory is the only option.

noahsark · Site Admin Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 43

Brother Tip,

It certainly wasn't a coincidence that "agreeing to disagree" came to you while you were writing about agreeing and walking together. There is certainly more to life than we are aware of or understand completely at this point. There has to be a higher collective knowledge and an interconnectedness to life that is behind instances like this one you report. I hear more and more about things like this happening with people I know.

I agree with you about getting off the grid. I am not so sure about going off to school to learn about it. I feel it is better to go to people who are already doing it and working on these kinds of projects and apprentice with them. It would probably be better if you can find a job working with someone who builds earthships or other "get off the grid" systems. That way you get the first hand experience of it in the real world instead of through a class room. Just a suggestion though, if going to school is the path you want to take then that is the path for you.

I just bring this up because 5 years ago I worked with a bee keeper and I learned more about bee keeping that way then i ever could going to some school for it. I also got paid for the work of coarse instead of having to pay for the education of learning about bee keeping.

Here is a place where you could do an internship and learn about building earthships. You don't get paid for it but it would also be cheaper than going to school as far as taking care of your housing and food. You could also walk away with much more from the experience and take the skill to land a job to hone your skills further before getting in to your own project. Certainly another option as far a cutting a path is concerned.

The subject of alternative/free energy systems are something to get peoples attention with. The problem is the people are always waiting for someone else to bring it to them. People will have to put together things like this themselves to get it off the ground like what has been done with the earthships.

None of the major car companies are going to bring a self-sufficient car to the people. I would really love to see the electrogravitic motor get off the ground. This will only happen when private mechanics start doing it on a grass roots level or someone with the time and initiative does it out of their own garage.

Things like this are something that everyone would be into once they could see it in action. It doesn't need no big time television of news program to spread either, could just be done through word of mouth and example.

Here is a link to a video where you can see this electro-gravitic motor in action that I speak of:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7365305906535911834

In regards to your one statement:

Tip · Joined: 25 Feb 2008 Posts: 19

Noah, great post bro. I've never heard of "earthships" before, so I'll have to take a look. I can agree with you about going to school, because I can't stand it. I've tried before, and it sucked.

I am about to enroll as we speak. I decided to go back for three reasons:

1. I need to know some of the technical knowledge necessary for building energy efficient "systems". I know next to nothing about electricity, physics, trigonometry, etc. but if I find the right teachers, I know I can master the concepts.

2. Get the piece of paper that says I'm smart. If I had a degree, people would be more likely to listen to me. I just had a very unproductive conversation with my brother-in-law's girlfriend who just graduated college. She assumed that I had no idea what I was talking about because I never went to college. Never mind the fact that I have more books in my house than space to store them, and I've read every last one of them. Other people take a similar stance, I find. So, first I need to get the good ideas together, and then I may need to convince some people that they are good. Having a degree helps.

3. Going to school will buy me time for study. If I'm going to school full time, then I can commit myself to getting the info that I need. Some of my ideas I haven't heard anybody else talk about, but they are incomplete and need to be finished and followed through on.

However, I don't especially want to go back to school, and you make a good point. Your attitude on this is actually very similar to mine. I'll make it a point to look through the info you provided on earthships, and I'll tell you what I think.

I've been fascinated with the concept of high efficiency motors for a long time. I designed one in high school, built it not too long ago now, and of course it didn't work. That's ok, though. I learned why it didn't work through research, and found several other designs much better than mine in the process. I appreciate the link for the electro-gravitic motor... that's one I haven't seen yet and I'm eager to check it out.

I hope the world doesn't go to crap too soon, but I wouldn't bet against it. Even knowing that time is most likely short, all I can do is prepare and continue to do what I think is right. I don't let myself get too worried, or in too big a hurry. Did you check out my post on silver?

Sorry about the scattered response, my wife just got home and I need to go cook her dinner (I'm the chef around here).

Peace, Bro

Curtis
_________________
Dear NWO,

You will go down soon,

Love,
Tip

noahsark · Site Admin Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 43

Right on bro,

Hope things work out well for you and the teachers come that you are looking for.

I haven't had a chance to respond to you silver post but have read it. I will get to it in time because it is another one of those topics that need to be looked at more carefully and I have my misgivings about the gold and silver concepts.

Thanks for starting this thread, you brought some good information to the table and I enjoyed the discussion it sparked.

I know that you will be busy with other things but here is a link I recently came across to where you can learn more about the Tarot if you care to take the time and feel inclined to do so.

http://learntarot.com/

The Fool's Journey:
http://learntarot.com/journey.htm

till next time...